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Proposed Invasion of Charleston harbor by the North

Discussion in 'Battle of Fort Sumter' started by wilber6150, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    Theres been a lot of talk about how the re-supply expedition to Sumter was actually an invasion force, so I thought I'd post the letter from Winfield Scott, the US army commander , to Lincoln in which he discusses this topic..


    http://hd.housedivided.dickinson.edu/?q=node/25261

    So somehow I don't think the force sent to re-supply Sumter in Dec or April comes anywhere near to meeting the requirements that the President was advised that he needed to hold the fort...
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  3. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    What follows is the letter that Lincoln sent to Scott which prompted the above post...

    http://hd.housedivided.dickinson.edu/node/25262
  4. Freddy Sergeant Major

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    Southerners believed that any Federal presence in the new CSA was an invasion of its territory. Rightly or wrongly that is what they believed. History and SCOTUS has proved their belief to be wrong but that will not stop the Neo Confederates from rallying behind it almost a century and a half later.
  5. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

    Gideon Welles to Abraham Lincoln, Friday, March 15, 1861 (Report on Fort Sumter)

    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mal:@field(DOCID @lit(d0817200))
  6. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

    Edward Bates to Abraham Lincoln, Friday, March 15, 1861 (Opinion on Fort Sumter)


  7. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

    Salmon P. Chase to Abraham Lincoln, Saturday, March 16, 1861 (Report on Fort Sumter)

    From Salmon P. Chase to Abraham Lincoln, March 16, 1861
    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mal:@field(DOCID @lit(d0818300))
  8. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    Abraham Lincoln Papers at the Library of Congress. Transcribed and Annotated by the Lincoln Studies Center, Knox College. Galesburg, Illinois.

    Gideon Welles to Abraham Lincoln, Friday, March 29, 1861 (Notes from cabinet meeting on Fort Sumter; endorsed by Abraham Lincoln)

    Gideon Welles, Opinion on Fort Sumter, March 29, 1861
    [ Endorsed at Top of Document by Lincoln: In Cabinet]

    Washington 29' March 1861
    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mal:@field(DOCID @lit(d0848300))
  9. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    I'm posting these letters from Lincolns advisor's to show that he was looking for advice on whether he should re-supply the fort or not, and to send reenforcments.The exact question seems to be "Assuming it to be possible to now provision Fort Sumter, under all the circumstances, is it wise to attempt it?"

    None of these shows any evidence that he was looking for advice on invading the South and most of the responses show that the President was advised not to do things that might set off the war..It also shows that Sumter would only receive additional troops if hostilities were commenced otherwise just food and supplies..They seemed to expect the war to start but didn't want the Union to be the one that fired it...
  10. dvrmte Captain

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    Someone please explain what the highlighted part means. It seems Lincoln is writing in cypher.

    WASHINGTON, May 1st, 1861.
    Capt. G.V. Fox:
    My Dear Sir, I sincerely regret that the failure of the late attempt to provision Fort Sumter should be the source of any annoyance to you. The practicability of your plan was not, in fact, brought to a test. By reason of a gale, well known in advance to be possible, and not improbable, the tugs, an essential part of the plan, never reached the ground ; while, by an accident, for which you were in nowise responsible, and possibly I, to some extent, was, you were deprived of a war-vessel, with her men, which you deemed of great importance to the enterprise.
    I most cheerfully and truthfully declare that the failure of the undertaking has not lowered you a particle, while the qualities you developed in the effort have greatly heightened you in my estimation. For a daring and dangerous enterprise of a similar character, you would, to-day, be the man of all my acquaintances whom I would select. You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Fort Sumter, even if it should fail ; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result.
    Very truly your friend, A. LINCOLN.
  11. dvrmte Captain

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    The invasion force was to be about 500 men. 300 were onboard the Powhatan that was mistakenly sent to reinforce Ft. Pickens where they were'nt needed. Why is the 200 number repeated over and over.
  12. dvrmte Captain

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    Another question, why was it made public that the garrison of Fort Sumter was starving and that they had food to last only until April 15th? They were allowed to buy food from Charleston until April 7th.

    Was this some kind of propaganda to influence the Northern and world opinion that the evil southerners were starving the poor garrison to death?
  13. DWMack65 Private

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    It was indeed a brilliant move to sway public opinion in the north. It was for Lincolns and sort of "heads I win, tails you lose". Lincoln out-smarted Davis. causing Davis to open the war, which is why it was so easy to muster thousands of recruits to the US Army to put down the Rebellion.
  14. dvrmte Captain

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    So Lincoln wanted war and was willing to provoke the first shot to start it. I wouldn't call it brilliant, maybe sinister. His cabinet tried to persuade him to evacuate the fort because it would start a war.
  15. DWMack65 Private

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    There were Cannons positioed at Sumter, so I'd say that Davis was prepared to provoke the first shot. Lincoln just put the ball in davis's court. If Davis fired on Ships, which he did, and if he fired on Sumter, which he did, than American opinion would be in favor of Mr. Lincoln. If Davis let the ships with provisions through, It would have been a show of US strength in keeping a federal instillation, and thus maintaining the upper hand. Lincoln did NOT want war. You can find his letters all over the internet to that effect. But if war was inevitable, He was going to make **** sure that he was in a position to win it, and as quickly as possible and bring the Confed's back in to in the Union.
  16. brass napoleon Captain

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    Taken in context with the rest of the letter and with other things Lincoln has said prior to this, I would paraphrase it this way:

    "The cause of the country is that we will not surrender any more federal property to the secessionists, at least not without a fight. And if a fight is to result, as it seems the secessionists desire, I have vowed that we would not fire the first shot. You, Captain Fox, have made a daring and dangerous attempt to peacefully provision Fort Sumter, which, if successful, would have allowed us to continue to hold the fort. Due to circumstances for which you are in nowise responsible, the attempt failed. While I understand this is a great source of annoyance to you, let it be no small consolation that at least we did not fire the first shot."
  17. Southland Banned

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    Wilber, you said the OR's don't mention reinforcements to Fort Sumter. Here is an example from the OR's.

    Official Records of the Civil War
    SERIES: I VOLUME: I CAMPAIGN: Charleston SERIAL: 001 PAGE: 0236

    HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY, Washington, D. C., April 4, 1861.
    Lieutenant Colonel HENRY L. SCOTT, A. D. C., New York:
    SIR: This letter will be landed to you by Captain G. V. Fox, ex-officer of the Navy, and a gentleman of high standing, as well as possessed of extraordinary nautical ability. He is charged by high authority here with the command of an expedition, under cover of certain ships of war, whose object is to re-enforce Fort Sumter.
    To embark with Captain Fox you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about two hundred, to be immediately organized at Fort Columbus, with a competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence. A large surplus of the latter-indeed, as great as the vessels of the expedition can take-with other necessaries, will be needed for the augmented garrison of Fort Sumter.
    The subsistence and other supplies should be assorted like those which were provided by you and Captain Ward of the Navy for a former expedition. Consult Captain Fox and Major Eaton on the subject, and give all necessary orders in my name to fit out the expedition, except that the hiring of vessels will be left to others.
    Some fuel must be shipped. Oil, artillery implements, fuses, cordage, slow-march, mechanical levers, and gins, &c., should also be put on board.
    Consult, also, if necessary, confidentially, Colonel Tompkins and Major Thornton.
    Respectfully, yours,
    WINFIELD SCOTT.

    My hilite and there are more as I find them.
  18. brass napoleon Captain

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    I have to disagree with this. Time was on Lincoln's side, or at least that's what he believed. The Confederacy had been still-born, with a majority of Southerners opposed to secession and only 7 of the 15 slaveholding states seceding. The more time went by, the more Southerners would realize this, and the greater the call would be to return to the Union. The longer Lincoln could hold out, the better. But that doesn't mean letting United States soldiers starve at their posts, and it doesn't mean turning tail and running from a confrontation like a coward.

    The secessionists also understood that time was on Lincoln's side, and that's why they opened fire. They had grown weary of waiting for him to break his promise of not attacking them.

    P.S. - If Lincoln had really been trying to provoke the secessionists into firing the first shot, why did he send a courier to Governor Pickens informing him that an attempt would be made to resupply Fort Sumter with provisions only?
  19. DWMack65 Private

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    To warn Gov. Pickens not fire on a ship that was only trying to relieve hungry soldiers. Again, the ball was in Picken's court. Whether or not Pickens chose to allow these provisions would sway public sentiment.
  20. wilber6150 Brig. General, Mod

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    So was Anderson lying when he said he would surrander by the 15th because he didn't have supplies?
  21. brass napoleon Captain

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    Agreed. I think I misunderstood your original post then. I just don't think Lincoln would have considered it "heads I win, tails you lose". It was a bad situation with lots of potential bad outcomes.

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